Cebil & Yopo (Anadenanthera spp.)

[wonaabi]

a dobro, al nemoraš se odmah srdit na mene

[wizard.hannah]

Jel ti to mene je...? LOL Kaj bi se srdil...kad se ja srdim onda se to osjeti lično! Nemoj nikada misliti da se ja srdim..nisam takav karakter. Ali ne volim kad me netko je..! A zna se dogoditi! Bilo je i ovdje na ovom forumu. A ja OK. Wannabe..nemoj mi biti u crnini...mene to rastuži kad veli neko da se ljutim! EVO VELIKI LOVE za TEBE

A sada malo o bufoteninu...ovo je prijepis sa neta..dali erowid ili wiki nisam ziher. TIHKAL:

SORRY EKIPA NA COPY PASTE IZ KNJIGE TIHKAL: SVE O BUFOTENINU NA ENGLESKOME (volio bih čuti za dobar converter na hrvatski sa engleskoga...ali ne riječi nego cijelog texta)

DOSAGE : 8 - 16 mg, intravenously

DURATION : 1 - 2 hrs

QUALITATIVE COMMENTS : (with 1 mg, intravenously, over a three minute period) "Within a minute (from the start of the injection) I had a tight feeling in my chest and my face felt as if it had been jabbed by nettles and this lasted for about 6 minutes. I had fleeting nausea."

(with 2 mg, intravenously, over a 3 minute period) "I felt a tightness in my throat and stomach and it seemed that my pulse was racing, although apparently there was no change in either my pulse or blood pressure."

(with 4 mg, intravenously, over a 3 minute period) "During the injection, I first felt a burning sensation in my face, then a load pressing down from above, and then a numbness of the entire body. I saw red and black spots -- a vivid orange-red -- moving around. Apparently my purplish face color lasted some 15 minutes, well after my visual things had disappeared."

(with 8 mg, intravenously, over a 3 minute period) "I became lightheaded as soon as the injection started, and then my face turned purple and I became nauseated and I felt I couldn't breathe. I see white, straight lines with a black background. I can't trace a pattern. Now there are red, green and yellow dots, very bright like they were made out of fluorescent cloth, moving like blood cells through capillaries, weaving in and out of the white lines. I another two minutes, everything was pretty much gone."

(with 10 mg, intravenously, over a 50 second period) "My face was suddenly very hot. I could not breathe fast enough."

(with 10 mg, intravenously, over a 77 minute period) "There were no psychological changes."

(with 16 mg, intravenously, over a 3 minute period) "Almost immediately I felt a burning sensation in the roof of my mouth and I felt a tingling all over my body. My face turned purple, and my chest feels crushed. Everything has a yellow haze, and I was sweating heavily and I vomited. Words can't come. My mind feels crowded. When I start on a thought, another one comes along and clashes with it. I can't express myself clearly. I am here and not here. It has now been forty minutes and I feel better, but I still feel like I would like to walk it off, like a hang-over."

EXTENSIONS AND COMMENTARY : This is a presentation of the very earliest studies done with bufotenine with human subjects, studies with 14 schizophrenic patients at a state mental hospital and with two convicts in a state prison. Two convicts at a state prison were injected over the course of three minutes, with a solution of bufotenine as the salt. This single observation, a description of hyperserotoninemia (a release of serotonin in the blood, called a carcinoid flush) was all it took, at the right time and the right place, to put bufotenine on the books as a "dangerous drug" by FDA classification. And with the passage of the Controlled Substance Act of 1970, it was placed in Schedule I as a hallucinogen, with a high abuse potential and no accepted medical utility. Whatever the actual activity of bufotenine might be, and what role it could play in explaining the complex role of serotonin in the human animal, today it would be extremely difficult to study, because of the flushing of the face of an experimental subject in a prison in Maryland in study that occurred at just the wrong time.

But that is the politics of the drug. I cannot help but comment on some aspects of the medical ethics that accompanied these studies. Here were a collection of 14 schizophrenic patients, experimental cattle is the analogy that comes to mind, into which the researching physicians injected their drug. Listen to the account of one lady, following a rapid intravenous injection of bufotenine. "There was intense salivation. She could easily have drowned in her own saliva, and she had to be turned on her side. The pulse rate rose slightly during the period extending from the end of the injection until some 10 minutes later, but without much change in blood pressure. Responsiveness returned in about 23 minutes, at which time the patient was entirely lucid and, in response to a query related to a preinjection suggestion, spoke of a long repressed memory from the age of three years, when she came into the bathroom and saw her mother dying of a uterine hemorrhage. This was told without affect and had no therapeutic consequences." HOLY COW! A schizophrenic victim volunteers a long-repressed memory of her mother's traumatic death. And with the state of the healing art in the mental hospitals of that time, two physicians effectively ignore what today would be considered a dramatic break-through in therapy. Another of their trials was acknowledged as being nearly fatal, requiring artificial respiration as intervention. This is research in the healing art of medicine?

So much for the politics, and for the medical ethics lecture. What can one say about the drug itself? This is an example of a very rare breed of active compounds, one that can be found in both the animal and the vegetable kingdoms. From toads to toadstools. There are a number of extremely close structural relatives out there in the wild world. Bufotenine must first and foremost be seen as an extremely close relative to serotonin (one of our principal neurotransmitter) of which it is the N,N-dimethyl homologue). There are many modifications of it in nature (found most frequently in the skins of frogs), and these all have deceptively similar names. It is helpful to me to tally them.

Bufoviridine: This is the 1:1 ester of bufotenine with sulfuric acid. It is yet more polar than bufotenine, and correspondingly less likely to get into the brain. If the bisulfate acid position were itself esterified in some biologically stable manner, then this compound just might be centrally active, but probably only via a parenteral route as seen with 5-MeO-DMT. The exposed dimethylamino group would still make it an easy substrate for MAO's.

Bufotenidine or Cinobufagine: This is the quaternary amine internal salt, 5-hydroxy-N,N,N-trimethyltryptammonium salt. It also is frequently found as a hydrogen sulfate ester, but this latter has no trivial name. Mention has been made of bufotenidine and its sulfate ester as a occasional companion of histamine analogues found in frog skins. See the appendix on histamines.

Dehydrobufotenine: There is a covalent bond formed between the dimethylated nitrogen atom and the indolic 4-position, by the theoretical removal of a molecule of hydrogen. It is no longer a simple tryptamine but as it is a commonly found component of the chemistry of several toads, and a few giant reeds as well, it is included here. It is, by definition, a quaternary amine salt. The original structure assigned it was that of a vinylamine (with the loss of a hydrogen molecule from the alpha/beta chain positions. This was shown to be incorrect.

Bufothionine: This is the hydrogen sulfate ester of dehydrobufotenine.

O-Methylnordehydrobufotenine: This is a rearrangement product of dehydrobuftenine, which may be a natural product or it may be an artifact of analysis.

O-Methylbufotenine: This represents a true crossover alkaloid, found in many plants as well as in the toad family, It is entered as a recipe under the synonym, 5-MeO-DMT.

Norbufotenine (5-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine, N-methylserotonin, 5-OH-NMT): This base is scattered in both the animal and the plant kingdoms. It has been found in quite a few toads and in barley shoots. It has been isolated from the herb Desmodium pulchellum. This is an interesting twilight compound lying half way between a notorious toxin (bufotenine) and a vital neurotransmitter (serotonin). And it is unexplored, for shame. It has been detected in the urine of schizophrenic subjects, but that doesn't say anything about its potential activity. That bare hydroxyl group may make it difficult to get into the brain. Probably as difficult as bufotenine itself proved to be. The removal of the second methyl group reveals serotonin.

Bufogenins or Bufagins: These are nitrogen-free steroidal lactones that are heart toxins found in toad venom. They have no chemical resemblance to bufotenine whatsoever. Examples are bufogenin B, bufotalin and bufotalinin.

Bufotoxins: These are steroidal bufagins, usually linked via an hydroxyl suberic acid which is, in turn, bound by a peptide link to arginine.

The are two structural variations of bufotenine that I feel would be interesting to explore. One deals with the ethers of the 5-hydroxyl group. The O-methyl ether is, of course, 5-MeO-DMT. It is mentioned above under the name O-methylbufotenine. What about the very obvious O-ethylbufotenine, 5-EtO-DMT? It had once been synthesized from 5-ethoxytryptophol in a physostigmine study, and had been converted to bufotenine with aluminum chloride. If the analogy from the phenethylamines applies here (MEM is as potent as TMA-2) then 5-EtO-DMT should be as potent as 5-MeO-DMT. And probably would have to be smoked for the very same reasons. Another variation deals with possible esters on that 5-hydroxyl group. Finding activity in things like the bisulfate bufoviridine would be unlikely, but perhaps an acetate ester (easily made from bufotenine and acetic anhydride) would allow it to make it into the CNS, in a manner similar to the acetate of the 4-hydroxy analogue, psilocin.

There once was (and maybe still is) a group called The Institute of Current World Affairs who gave grants to people to allow them to travel and write on topics of cultural interest. I was on their mailing list, which gave me a fabulous collection of essays and vignettes written by Andy Weil, who later spun some of them together into a book called The Marriage of the Sun and Moon. In trying to organize and understand the pharmacology of bufotenine I was pleasantly reminded of the essays Andy devoted to the magic of Uri Geller.

He was initially completely entranced by the way this young man from Israel could muster the psychic energy of an audience to bring about some remarkable phenomenon. It was not just the bending of keys and spoons, but it was remote viewing and mind-reading as well. It was the stuff of the miraculous.

Andy was a total convert, but then there was an abrupt erosion of certainty that began with Andy's meeting with a skeptic called the Amazing Randi, who could duplicate most of the illusions with his sleight of hand mastery. Andy went from total belief to total disbelief in a very short period of time. It seemed that his earlier conviction was wrong and that all was indeed misrepresentation. This change in position of course managed to offend both camps. Then he came finally to a middle ground. The status of Uri Geller may be essentially unanswerable. Psychic phenomena are believed if that is needed. Are these things factual? Who is judging it all, and from what point of view?

And so it is with bufotenine. Is it an active psychedelic? Absolutely yes, absolutely no, and maybe yes and maybe no.

The early reports used the "psychotomimetic" term and pushed for a psychedelic interpretation of the observations. Observers saw colored spots, straight lines against a black background. Words can't come. My mind feels crowded. These and similar descriptions are often encountered as components of psychedelic experiences. And yet a skeptic would point to the terms that are closely associated with toxic effects, and peripheral poisoning: my face turned purple and I became nauseated, I could not breathe fast enough. Lactimation and tachycardia. These all are exerpts from the small selection of comments given above. In the period that has followed the earliest studies described in the "Qualitative Comments" section above, there have been about a dozen additional reports that could be offered that describe the same scatter of ups and downs, employing different modes of delivery. With insuflation, I have one that claims a feeling of fear, a flushing of the face, lacrimation and tachycardia, with ten milligrams. Another report states that after snorting forty milligrams, observed neither objective nor subjective effects. Some clinicians demand that the compound is unquestionably a psychotomimetic and it must be catalogued right up there along with LSD and psilocybin. Others, equally sincere, present human trials that suggest only peripheral toxicity and conclude that there is no central action to be seen. And there are many who state that there are no effects for it at all, either inside or outside the CNS. The psychopharmacological status of bufotenine, like that of Uri Geller, may be essentially unanswerable.

Two recent publications provide new and provocative input to this dialogue. One of these involved a series of appearances of a reddish substance on the East Coast called Chinese Love Stone, Black Stone, Rock Hard or Stud 100, being sold as aphrodisiacs. They were to be moistened and rubbed on the genitals, but as might be expected, quite a few were eaten and eventually smoked. They contained steroidal toxins, and were possibly related to some frog origins, but they were claimed to be bufotenine and indeed contained bufotenine in addition to several cardiotoxins as well as 5-MeO-DMT.

A second report carries, at least for me, much more impact. A study of the use of the seeds of a South American legume, Anadenanthera colubrina var. Cebil by the Argentine Shamans in Chaco Central, shows then to be dramatically psychedelic. And yet, extremely sophisticated spectroscopic analysis has shown them to contain bufotenine and only bufotenine as their alkaloid component.

At the bottom line, I do not really know of bufotenine is a psychedelic drug. Maybe yes and maybe no.

[Red]

“Off Topic”

cisto da se ubacim sa jednom sitnicom. vidis kako ostavljas dojam da se ljutis/nerviras pa onda tako ljudi i reagiraju na tebe, mozda otud dolazi i jebanje dakle pristup koji zauzimas u pisanju daje ocito krivi dojam, obrati paznju, pa cemo se manje jebat

vole vas Red

[wizard.hannah]

OFF TI TOPIC

Volim kada se ovako riješi nešto...ako dam dojam da se ljutim, dobim prigovor a ne pljusku, i onda jednom zauvijek objasnim da se ja nikada ne ljutim ako je sve fair. Znam da češ imati odgovr RED ali pametni ljudi ne traže svađu-provokacije rade. To sam želio reći-to sam i rekao wannabe. Moj odgovor nikada nije provokacija jer se držim unutar linije. Žao mi je što me shvatila/shvatio da sam sa one strane linije.

[wonaabi]

ma nema problema, nisam se ja niš zbediro.samo me zanimalo čemu ti silni uskličnici...
a jebanja nikad dosta.

ontopic, mislim da postoji razlika u intravenoznoj konzumaciji i konzumaciji na žarulju.
al kako god da bilo s bufoteninom ću eksperimentirat jedino ako budem imo uspješan lov na žabe...i to ne zato jer sam nabrijan na sam bufotenin već na čitavu avanturu udimljenog hvatanja žaba u šumi.

[wizard.hannah]

Prouči Bufo-Bufo! Ja sam lizal krive..one iz potoka! Jedino što sam dobio je bilo njeno govno!

[Alkaloid]

Planiram u doglednom periodu naručit nešto sjemenki colubrine i zanima me kakva su vaša iskustva. U principu vjerujem da su sjemenke kod nas legalne, s obzirom da sadrže samo veće količine bufotenina koji legalan dok isključivo svježe sjeme sadrži i manje doze nn-DMT i 5-meo-DMT, ali ako naručite s neta sjeme za koje nije posebno naglašeno da je svježe i klijavo (viable) ljudi tvrde da to znači da je u prosjeku staro barem dvije godine. U tom periodu se DMT i 5-meo već razgrade, ali ne i bufotenin koji je prilično stabila. Zakonskih problema dakle ne bi trebalo biti, ali vrag ( ) nikad ne spava pa da ga jebeš. Ja sam dosad naručivao samo spore i sićušno legalno sjeme koje stane u kuvertu i ne privlači pažnju.

Pitanje glasi - jeste li (odnosno vaši dragi SWIMovi i SWIYovi) naručivali sjeme (Anandenthere), je li prošlo glatko i je li vam poznato da je netko ikad imao problema?

Pitanje NE GLASI - koje je vaše mišljenje o bufoteninu, yopu, sodi bikarboni i karbitu, načinima pripreme & konzumacije, žabama, životu, politici, religiji, seksu, gay prideu ili bilo čemu drugom.

Pozdrav svima, a naročito SWIM-ovima, gdje god bili.

[wizard.hannah]

PROLAZITI ČE TI LAGANO I BEZ PROBLEMA DOK JEDNOM NE OTVORE PISMO-POŠILJKU I TESTIRAJU ŠTO SADRŽI A ONDA SI DRAGI MOJ FRENDE NAJEBO KO ŽUTI!

DMT, 5-Meo-DMT i Bufotenin su ilegalne substance! Sve do jedne su zabranjene u Republici Hrvatskoj!!
Neznam kak to vrtiš da Bufotenin nije ilegalan??? Ilegalan je koliko i MDMA te DMT!

Savjet:naručuj manje a i nebu ti se svidjelo koliko čujem od ljudi. I Alexu Shoulginu se nije svidio.
Zgadio mu se bufotenin!

Čuvaj se jer pasti sa tim bi bila totalna glupost! Plus dobio bi optužbu 1.posjedovanje, 2.posjedovanje biljaka od kojih se može dobiti droga, 3.posjedovanje materijala ili biljaka od kojih se može dobiti droga sa namjerom prodaje(ako više naručiš od 10sjemenki sudac če gledati na sjemenku kao na tabletu exa.) +Pretres stana pa ak još doma nekaj imaš..veselo!!

Slično se meni desilo...razlika je u substancama. Ali proces je isti kasnije.

Čuvaj se.

[Alkaloid]

Vidiš vraga, ja sam bio uvjeren da sam dovoljno jasno definirao što jest, a što nije pitanje. Pa ipak...

Zbilja ne vidim kako ti dragi Wizarde (koji me ne poznaješ) zaključuješ što se meni hoće ili neće svidjeti, a ja nisam niti precizirao što želim učiniti sa sjemenkama!? Što se Shulgina tiče, vidiš stvar je jednostavna - ja nisam Shulgin, ti nisi Shulgin, ja nisam ti i tako dalje... sto ljudi sto ćudi.

Rekoh da mislim da je bufotenin legalan jer sam pogledao popis ---> http://www.poslovni-savjetnik.com/propi ... a-te-tvari

...i na njemu nema predmetne supstance ni pod bufotenin, ni pod 5-oh-dmt, ni pod 5-ho-dmt, pa štoviše čak nema niti supstance 5-meo-dmt, za koju sam čvrsto vjerovao da stvarno jest zabranjena. A ti ako tvrdiš da jest zabranjena daj mi neki link na kojem se u to mogu uvjeriti jer tvoje mišljenje nema težinu zakona.

Volio bih da one postove gdje ljudi traže vrlo konkretne informacije dignemo na neku višu razinu pa da razmjenjujemo korisne, provjerljive informacije, s linkovima i referencama, a ne da se nabacujemo nekim stavovima i glasinama, pa sve u nekom kulerskom tonu.

Nažalost nisi mi pomogao, ali svejedno hvala.

m i r

[wizard.hannah]

Nije ni Peyote na listi a opet ga oduzimaju.
Ono što čitaš je nepotpuna lista. Nađi neku listu izvan HR. I znaj da naši policajci sve moguće liste uzimaju u obzir.